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musings regarding my recent Korean output

Posted in korean, writing by choronghi on May 21, 2017

So I know a lot of language learners are obsessed with perfection almost to the point of irritation. no nobody gives a shit about how your handwriting improved for the katakana or the hanguel or whatever from writing it over and over or copying long ass passages of god knows what… perhaps you should put your time to better use. they just irritate me because in away they’re promoting awful learning methods and also seem oblivious or narrow-minded to other various methods of learning out there. my school of thought is I suffered at the hands of compulsory education with the mind-numbing, awful activities like work-sheets or copyings things etc etc…. why are you willing subjecting yourself to this torture on your free time? One of the biggest realizations I made when I was learning Japanese was that I was spending so much time learning about how to learn or various ways to learn or what are bad ways to learn despite years of compulsory conditioning trying to convince me that it’s effective. But I don’t regret spending that time learning about learning because I don’t want to waste any more time on shit and in the overall scheme of things you waste more time learning ineffectively by not learning about learning.

ANYWAYS recently I was outputting my Korean because I had to communicate with this korean person via email (by the way I see no appeal in “pen-pals” whatsoever… I am only communicating with someone if I have something to communicate to that specific person). I just wanted to communicate and deliver the information I wanted to deliver and I also wanted to get answers from this person. My attitude going into this is “ugh let’s just end this in the most painless, efficient way possible.” (I work full time, I have shit to do, it’s the just natural attitude for me to have)

In my view, it’s best to not give a shit and just do whatever is least painful and strenuous because that will lead to MORE output in volume compared to re-reading your sentences or clauses or using the dictinoary to look up crap you don’t have to or just stressing about it because you can’t write as eloquently as a native ( this is such a stupid and asinine and invalid worry. you should be asking yourself WHY WOULD I BE ABLE TO WROTE ELOQUENTLY seeing as you only spent x hours listening/reading/writing/speaking. i wish more people would read AJATT). Because I set this low standard for myself OF COMMUNICATION I did not waste my time looking up words in the dictinoary or re-reading and re-writing my sentences obsessively. I did do the final re-read just to make sure it made sense and my message would be understood by the receiving party. Ultimately I did “proof-read” albeit lazily and half-assedly and I later realized there were still typos when I sent it. But I did not care because my goal was communication and I knew despite whatever mistakes or typos or unnaturalnness or clunkiness of the sentence or fragment the person will understand what I’m saying. And I genuinely did not care if my Korean output seems worse than actually it is due to typos and lack of effort on my effort. There’s a level that you reach in the upper intermediate stage where you know your writing is full of mistakes and it’s unnatural but you know for sure that the native person will understand what you wrote ( I will link my only lang-8 entry that’s in Korean so you can get some idea of my ability to output but honestly depending what I want to output (writing an entry on lang-8 vs cmomunicating wtih someone via email is completely different) the shit can get real raw and terrible as any language learner knows ) . some of the stuff you can obsess over with writing well is so minor with respect to comprehension like the ㅅㅅㅅㅅ you put in to make sentences more formal and respectful. I just shoved the ㅅ shit in when I felt like it because this person’s isn’t going to get pissed at me for not using it when I shouldn’t have or not using it when I should have because he knows I’m not fluent in Korean and he should be able to tell my main goal is communication since he don’t speak fluent english.


So as we have our e-mail exchanges I start to give a shit unfortunately. I take this as a bad thing because I’m wasting time that could be put to better use and it’s just emails so it doesn’t matter if it’s not perfect since the only goal is communication. ALSO EVEN if I look up whatever my email will still have mistakes. what happened was I GOOGLED 오랫만 WITH QUOTES because I was unsure if it was correct or not and google says it’s a common mistake it’s actualy oreNNNN man. before I googled it I was thinking o-ret-man is correct and oreNNN is wrong or vice versa or they’re BOTH CORRECT. So after I did what I did I was kinda disappointed in myself for wasting my time googling. so then he responds and he opens his email with OREtttttT MAN so I feel even more irritated at myself wasting time on googling shit. it’s so minor, it don’t matter and he don’t even know if it’s incorrect or he knows but still wants to use it (I know that feeling). Hell I felt like using it and I should’ve just gone for it. You know what I’m gonna ask him about it… I only make a big deal of this because it will be if I get into this tunnel-vision mindset of obsessing over little shit and waste a gargantuan amount of time. It seems like it’s not a lot of time but it really adds up if you’re constantly obsessing over minuscule crap.

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Vocabulary lists

Posted in Japanese, korean, korean tv, vocabulary by choronghi on February 1, 2017

VOCABULARY LISTS
Vocab lists seem so tempting because it seems so efficient sorta like premade like anki decks. Of premade decks I’ve only used the heisig one successfully which  I had to modify heavily to suit my needs.  It’s tempting to go math crazy and do the 20 words a day x 356 days in a year = 7120 words or some other variation but I’ve learned the hard way the futility in doing that with my experience of misusing anki while learning Japanese.

I’m just posting about this topic because I just happened to come across these blogs that are an amazing fit for me to generate the anki cards in MCD format.  These bloggers are sharing what they looked up on their blogs and they’re Japanese people learning Korean so this material is quite alluring to me.

http://uprive1.rssing.com/chan-2640801/all_p15.html
http://yokorea.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-62.html
http://erirang.blogspot.com/

****
6000 intermediate
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s167/sh/5d3a9f85-afd6-4466-82e5-9286d5e8d985/bc45c355f8de111f624047f9f64317d9

6000 advanced
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s167/sh/5b206c6c-9772-4199-9d2a-7f58d816549e/11a60d02ccedd27630da31b7d8a8dc9d


So I had saved this huge ass list of the top 6,000 Korean words from a some wiki website into my evernote.  i had no intention of memorizing the list. I know how it may seem appealing for some hardworking rote-memorizing people but not to me. It just makes more sense to learn these words as you encounter them since they ARE SO GODDAMN COMMON AND USEFUL.  also you may think top 6,000 words are mad useful!! but trust me they most likely aren’t. you need to figure out what YOUR TOP 6,000 KOREAN WORDS ARE as in the top 6000 words that come up in the korean media you enjoy. Anyways I kept it to sorta gauge my growth in korean vocabulary. for example a lot  of the words  were  ha?  the(japanese ha) or like wuh?  from 2 years ago are now i know this shit. I’ll go “wow this shit is mad useful or i’ve seen it.” or i’ll be hardpresed to find words i have never seen or heard of.  never mind it was from 4 years ago! 2012!  If you still suck after 4 years you should reevaluate your methods and your goals.

Speak of the devil, here’s my worst nightmare realized

In my case by the time i reached 3000 cards in anki ( i didn’t anki for the first 3 or 6 months because i do not want to waste my time learning super common/useful words… that’s just stupid) I was  understanding talk variety shwos anywhere from 80 to 100% (depending on the show and how much I look up). it’s not about the number of cards…

BTW memorizing all the words in this 6000 word list will not enable you to watch korean dramas without subtitles ( just looking through this list and thinking of all the words that i know on this list and all the words i know that i encounter that are not on this list… by encounter I mean strictly talk/variety shows). it’s literally the tip of the iceberg (all the awesome kickass words are obviously not in this list… not to mention korea is obsessed with trends so it feels like they invent 100 news words and that of that 90% die the next year, rinse and repeat.  I’m just guessing here because I don’t keep up with that since I don’t watch korean dramas or korean shows on a consistent basis. in fact I’m chasing after random eps of shows that aired a few years ago or a fewdays ago or a few months ago… even with japanese I’ve read over 120 books and recently I looked up a few words from this new book I’m reading and I’m like woah these are some cool words why didn’t I hear about them sooner. this shit is never ending but at the same time I love how there’s so many awesome words out there that i do not know about. this applies to english as well OF COURSE). there’s so much vocab to know for korean dramas (even more for the saguk dramas) since as everyone knows the characters talk so much and they always drag out the dialogue and the scenes. literally every single character in korean dramas are chatterboxes. it’s a lot of vocab. well that level is fluency… in other words watching korean dramas without subtitles. I do know people who are Korean and fluent in Korean who watch it and understand/catch everything so that is what fluency is… for comprehension in my opinion anyway. I don’t like Korean dramas anyway so this doesn’t bother me but sometimes I like gauging my Korean by watching some clip of a korean drama to see my lack of vocabulary or my full comprehension if lightening strikes. sometimes it happens.

However as much as I find anking with mcd format to be effective for learning Korean at my Korean level (vocab, grammar, hours spent on Korean, etc) I can’t bring myself to use the material on these blogs to generate anki cards.  It is intriguing to sorta gauge my level or rather see how much I don’t know from scrolling through these blogs.

I’ve been mostly getting words and whatnot for my anki deck from Korean that come out of people’s mouths on Korean TV and sometimes words on the screen that aren’t said ( I usually only do this if  I feel really tempted because the word seems super easy to remember if it has no bacchim or I feel that  I can associate something with the sound with the bacchim whether or not it is of sino-korean origin to remember the meaning). Partly that’s due to lack of motivation because I do not want to learn useless Korean. Maybe if you’re obsessed and driven to become fluent in Korean ASAP then maybe you have the urge to look up anything and everything but looking at it in the overall scheme of things that’s not an efficient way to go on about that.

The fact that I got something from a Korean show from a Korean person’s mouth imparts that word or grammar etc so much more value versus some word list with words that people think are useful based on their experiences with the English counterpart of those words or whatever variation of this. People just express things differently on a fundamental level depending on the language.

So anyways, some of the blogs that I linked did mine real Korean from a Korean article etc etc which imparts value on the list they share. However though it raises the value of the list in my eyes I personally didn’t read that article so I have no personal connection to any of those words and therefore no conviction that those words are useful. I won’t believe it unless I actually see it being used. But also I won’t force myself to read an article just so I can easily generate anki cards. I’ll only read the article if it interests me.

This site http://uprive1.rssing.com/chan-2640801/all_p15.html reminds me of textbooks. I am tempted for a second to learn from it but then the next second I realize there’s way too much awesome kickass tv show episodes of korean talk/variety shows to be watched. When it comes down to it, no matter what textbook it is, textbooks will never be more fun then native media. The whole point of textbooks is so you can stop using it and learn from Native material ASAP. If you think textbooks are fun you’ll probably faint from the shock of how much more interesting native material is. I see no problem using textbooks in the beginning stages but some people are like hey you got recs for intermediate/advanced? I’m thinking to myself do you want to learn korean for the sake of learning korean? how embarrassing.

If I had to choose between anking too much and anking too little I would choose anking too little. I think anking too much is worse because it’s proof that you are wasting your time that could be spent living your life doing things you enjoy whether it’s language learning related or not. To put a new perspective on it, I imagine what I would be doing if I were fluent in Korean and/or raised in Korea. The answer is not me reading from a textbook to improve my Korean. The answer would be I would be watching the exact same shows I’m watching now except I wouldn’t be looking up anything because I already know all those words and their nuances and their multiple meanings and the literal / figurative meanings of all the Korean because I’m fluent in Korean. I’d probably be multitasking like washing dishes while listening to it etc etc because it’s so effortless. I’m watching the show because I enjoy it. I don’t try to force myself to like a show or pretend that I like it or pretend that I like it or enjoy it more than I do just so I can find something to do in Korean…. I’m sure some people try AJATT and kinda think they’re doing it but they’re really not if they have to lie to  themselves that they enjoy doing something or enjoy it more than they actually do.

When it comes down to it the number of anki cards I have or the percentage of mature cards is not an accurate measure of my Korean abilities. Ultimately it comes down to the amount of time I spent doing STUFF IN Korean while actively trying to figure out what I don’t understand or don’t know. Anki helps so much with making time I spent with Korean to be that much more fruitful and efficient with acquiring Korean vocab /grammar.  I don’t have time to be watching Korean TV all day because I work full-time and I have other stuff I want to do that may not be in Korean. Why should I miss out on amazing stuff like Breaking Bad? Or God Tongue? Though I’m not able to spend a lot of time on Korean on a consistent basis (daily is ideal right?) due to time restraints and my volition that wants to do other things anki allows me to maximize whatever time I spent with the Korean show etc. I’ve never felt like I’ve moved backwards in Korean or even stagnant to be honest. The reason is that sometimes even if you don’t do something in Korean for let’s say 3 months, you still have Korean running through your brain that’s being digested. It’s some kind of delayed processing. I do still do anki on a daily basis or sometimes less frequently. It’s so strange how I feel like my Korean improved in certain ways despite cutting contact for x weeks or months. I’ve experienced this with Japanese as well in the past due to unfortunate circumstances.  It was invigorating to hear other language learners talk about this EXPERIENCE on an episode on  language mastery  podcast. http://l2mastery.com/show/

you know I think the only possible way for my Korean to be stagnant or go backwards is if all I did was textbooks or cramming wordlists.  I think to realize my efforts are for nil would be so devastating and disheartening AFTER x weeks or months despite torturing myself for x hours.  One of the many reasons why I learned Korean after Japanese was that I did not want to waste my time with learning Korean. I equate stagnation and going backwards as wasting time. Learning in this order (with the foundation/scaffolding that is hanja and Japanese grammar) and using anki has ensured that I never feel like I’m going backwards with Korean. It’s just impossible. I never understood how people could motivate themselves to learn a language using methods that could possibly lead to stagnation or going backwards if they slacked or not get in contact with the language for x weeks or months.

How I learn Korean with Anki

Posted in korean, korean tv, Uncategorized by choronghi on November 24, 2016

I touched upon this on this previous post but i wanted to break it down. I’m pleased with the streamlined process. There’s some info I have to share beforehand which is that I usually don’t take more than 3 seconds with each card and only one format works for me and I know this from my experience with learning Japanese (It’s just my personality and I can’t get myself to read each card thoroughly and slowly… as soon as the answer pops in my head I press the space bar and give my answer).  If you take more than 5 seconds with each anki card you should really reevaluate what you’re doing. As amazing as Anki is with the spaced repetition, if you use it wrong you are wasting your time and in the worse case scenario you’re deluded into thinking that you’re kicking ass in x language when you are wasting time.

(yes it says 3.9 secs but I’m still converting the format over for old cards that are still the traditional format of word in front and definition in front. I think that’s why my answering time is longer than it is because like I said it’s in my personality to press that space bar ASAP)

Another thing I have to mention is that I am only able to do this mcd format because of my current level of familiarity of Korean and my current korean vocabulary. I had mentioned in that previous post that I recently started this format because I finally reached a point where I passed this vocab level/korean familarity threshold where I am actually able to engage with the MCD card format and doing those cards are virtually effortless. Well more like really easy.  AND another thing I HATE IT when people write stuff off without thinking about the possibilities!! in a previous post I mentioned how people think TV is a waste of time blahblah blh but that i disagreed because ultimately it came down to the TV show because there are really well-written, well-produced shows with words I gotta look up words in the dictionary if I want to understand them in their entirety. Anki gets a bad rep too because people don’t realize the possibilities like the different formats of cards you could set up in anki. for me this format has been soooo good for my Japanese and now my Korean. Of course I am using anki properly as in supplementing my learning from Native Media as opposed to putting all my time and energy into anki. There is an ideal ratio of how much time you spend with anki vs your language and my personal belief is that in the beginning you should especially spend more time with the language and native media etc rather than anki.  For Korean, in the beginning when  I added cards in the traditional format of word or sentence in front and definition in back I could tell from doing the reviews that this shit wasn’t happening because anki does not replace actually spending time with the language. also I think in the beginning certain words are just easier to remember than others just because certain words are that much more common and useful and it’s overwhelming in the beginning with all the Kango. So even though I was adding these cards and knew I wasn’t actually retaining most of it I still did the anki reviews but I didn’t take it seriously. I would half-ass it and put as little effort into it as possible and I would mark  GOOD instead of AGAIN when I had no f’in idea what the answer was because I knew there was no point drilling this in anki till i “know” it because that shit will not happen. ANd now in 2016 I get to convert those cards into mcd format and actually learn them and actually engage with anki.

I was going to leave the deck I originally shared on anki and then share my mcd format deck but anki just ended up over-writing the original deck so… that’s unfortunate.

SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO  here is an example of the streamlined anki process!!

step 1) Watch a korean tv show that I will actually enjoy and gain something from. It’s truly amazing all the different information and stories I hear from watching korean tv and japanese tv that i would never get from american tv and vice versa. it’s enriching and I love it.

SO I found out about this episode of As I say from googline unprertty rapstar in google news because i LOVE unpretty rapstar season 1

http://www.ondemandkorea.com/as-i-say-e7.html

(this site actually has english subs but i don’t use them because that’s just counterintuitive for me at my level)

this episode features CHEETAH who was a fierce and talented rapper from unpretty rapstar season 1 . sometimes I torrent the episode of the tv show but for this particular show there’s no torrent for it. I enjoyed listening to alllll the guests in the episode in the end !  Another show i REcently did was 이몽사몽 episode where the girl was saying that her mom was a video game addict. I wanted to watch this episode because it sounded mad interesting.

step 2) I use my iphone and search for unknown words in my korean-japansee dictinoary while watching the show. I IGNORE any words that plop on the screen that are not words that came out people’s mouths like sound effects or describing crap.  Sometimes  I do get tempted to look up and add background korean text IF it looks like it’ll be really easy to remember like no bacchim. Usually they “sub” the dialogue so I can usually look up the word. If I find the correct definition i copy it and paste it into my notepad in my iphone. so while I do this I usually rewind the show 15 seconds using the left arrow (whether it’s the .mp4 playing or this website) or I just let the show play and rewind back to the spot after I’m doing looking up the word.

step 3) email that sucker to myself

부종 (浮腫)

[명사][한의학] 浮腫ふしゅ; むくみ

単語 (1件)
팽그르르

[부사]
0.    滑すべるようにまわるさま: くるくる.
기로 (岐路)

[명사]岐路きろ; 分わかれ道みち; 境

さかい
노발대발 (怒發大發)

[명사]かんかんになって怒おこること

自分じぶんのことをうまく処理しょりしていくこと; よくめんどうをみて世話せわすること.
집안일을 잘 건사하다
家事かじをうまく切きり回まわす

연민 (憐憫·憐愍)

[명사]憐憫[憐愍](れんびん).

아우성(―聲)

フリガナ T T
명사
•            大おおぜいがどっと上あげる叫さけび; 大おおぜいのわめき.

노동 (勞動)

[명사]労働

질척하다

[형용사]どろどろである; べとべとし
ろう
최서윤

돈독이 오르다
金かねに夢中むちゅうになる; 金かねにがりがりとする

거스르다

[타동사]
0.    (거역) 逆さからう
이 정도 고통까지 느껴보면 여자는 자연의 섭리를 거스르고 있는 것이 아닌가 싶으며 털에게 항복하고 싶어져요

と聞こえます。

ㅉㅉ / 쯧쯧 :

カテゴリー:

ホーム  > ネット > チャット用語、絵文字  > ツツ
—————————- 単語 ————————————
読み方


ツツ
—————————- 類義語 ———————————— —————————- 対義語———————————— —————————- 俗語———————————— —————————- 雅語———————————— —————————- 類義語 ———————————— —————————- 反意語 ————————————
意味

ツツとは、相手にあきれた時の舌を鳴らす音

説明

——————————— 写真の配置 なし ——————————-
ㅉㅉ = 쯧쯧 / 쯔쯔 = 相手がかわいそうだと感じた時、
または相手にあきれた時の舌を鳴らす音の韓国語絵文字。
※日本の舌打ちとは違う。

복지 (福祉)

[명사]福祉ふくし

잇속 (利―)

[명사]実利じつり; 打算ださん.
잇속

[명사]歯並はならび.

新しい

따지다

[타동사]
0.    (셈을) 計算する; 勘定する.
0.    (시비·까닭) 詰る; 問い詰める; (問い)ただす

単語 (1件)
우르르

[부사]
0.    図体の大きいものが大ぜいで, 一時に
図体の大きいものが大ぜいで, 一時に急ぎ走りだすか追いかけてくるさま: わあっと; どかどかと; わんさと; どやどやと.

무속 (巫俗)

[명사]巫俗; 巫女の風俗.

新しい

응가

フリガナ T T
명사, 감탄사
•            [유아어] 幼児に便をさせる時に使う言葉: うんこ

골방 (―房)

[명사](居間などについている)小部屋.

新しい
•    
추상화

[명사][미술] 抽象画.

新しい

눈여기다

フリガナ T T
타동사
•            (主に‘눈여겨’の形で) 注意深く見る.
눈여겨 살피다
注意深くうかがう 재생

step 4) format the shit out of that in notepad using html and also adding the tag  and using control + h to mass delete crap. and of course I delete any words that  I don’t think are worth adding whether it’s too easy or useless etc.

tags:말하는대로-TV
___종 <p>(浮腫)  浮腫ふしゅ; むくみ :부종
팽___르르  <p>滑すべるようにまわるさま- くるくる. :팽그르르
___로 <p> 分わかれ道みち; 境기로 (岐路) 岐路きろ:기로
노____발 <p>(怒發大發) かんかんになって怒おこること  :노발대발
___사하다 <p> 自分じぶんのことをうまく処理しょりしていくこと; よくめんどうをみて世話せわすること.: 집안일을 잘 <p> 家事かじをうまく切きり回まわす
연___ <p>(憐憫·憐愍)  憐憫[憐愍](れんびん). :연민 최서윤
___우성<p>(―聲) 大おおぜいがどっと上あげる叫さけび; 大おおぜいのわめき. :아우성
___동 <p>(勞動) : 노동 労働 최서윤
질___하다  <p>どろどろである; べとべとし :질척하다
돈독이 ___르다  <p>金かねに夢中むちゅうになる; 金かねにがりがりとする :돈독이 오르다
___스르다 <p>逆さからう<p>자연의 섭리를 거스르고 :거스르다  <p> 이 정도 고통까지 느껴보면 여자는 자연의 섭리를 거스르고 있는 것이 아닌가 싶으며 털에게 항복하고 싶어져요
너___레를 떨다 <p> お喋りをする : 너스레를 떨다
tzu x2 <p>相手にあきれた時の舌を鳴らす音<p>  相手がかわいそうだと感じた時、<p>または相手にあきれた時の舌を鳴らす音の韓国語絵文字。※日本の舌打ちとは違う。:쯧쯧
복__<p> (福祉)福祉ふくし :복지
___속<p> (利―)実利じつり; 打算ださん. :잇속
___속<p>歯並はならび :잇속
___지다<p> 計算する; 勘定する. :따지다
우___르<p>図体の大きいものが大ぜいで, 一時に急ぎ走りだすか追いかけてくるさま:わあっと; どかどかと; わんさと; どやどやと. :우르르
___속<p> (巫俗)巫俗; 巫女の風俗.  :무속
___가    <p>幼児に便をさせる時に使う言葉:うんこ :응가
___방<p> (―房)(居間などについている)小部屋. :골방
c_____상화<p> 抽象画. :추상화
눈여___다  <p> (主に‘눈여겨’の形で) 注意深く見る.:눈여기다

 

actually ___스르다

逆さからう

자연의 섭리를 거스르고 :거스르다

이 정도 고통까지 느껴보면 여자는 자연의 섭리를 거스르고 있는 것이 아닌가 싶으며 털에게 항복하고 싶어져요 this is from a question onchiebukuro where i asked someone to transcribe a line from something tangu- show and so it’s tagged wrong but i don’t give a shit… point is importing cards into anki KICKS ASS.

one of the reasons this format works so well for me is that i am very familiar with Japanese so reading in Japanese is automatic as it is with english but i think it’s moreso with Japanese due to the Kanji and visual aspect of the written language.

step 5) import into anki

step 6) effortless anking 😀 🙂

as far as i know this is the most efficient way to go on about it and I got over 20 cards from this episode. I love living in 2016 with all these technology and time-saving tools.

by the way the oldest card in my korean anki deck is from 2012 01 22 which means I’ve been neglecting this anki deck for like 5 years before i truly started to engage with it~~ also I had started learning korean in 2011 summer but did manual srs because I knew the words i would learn would be common and useful and not worth anking and so my deck does not start from beginner/easy af. I loved how I had the clarity to know that that was the right way to go. it’s just not worth anking in the beginning of language learning imo except for like remembering the kanji.

btw generating anki cards for Japanese is even more effortless and efficient due to rikai-sama~~

Korean 101: Deuska no ka

Posted in korean, Uncategorized by choronghi on November 13, 2016

All right here is another korean 101 thing that I still didn’t master even though I started learning Korean in 2011??  Well my history with korean is  mad complicated so for that read the about me section. even that is not detailed enough to make things crystal clear but hey it’s the internet i have no obligation to spill my guts.

SO recently I learned about the korean equivalent to ka IN JAPANESE.  as in honyarara or chome chome desuka

this was from IU’s song 23. btw i cannot taylor swift’s songs. I wish she would do something about her camel toe. no one needs to see that.

난 수수께끼
뭐게요 맞혀봐요

「뭐게요?」は「뭐게?」の敬語です。

例文もう少しあげますと

이 상자 안에 있는 건 뭐게?
この箱の中にあるのは何だと思う?

엄마한테 받은 선물이 뭐게?
母からもらったプレゼントが何だと思う?

뭐게요 맞혀봐요
なんと思います?当ててみてよ

뭐게요は文法的に, 무엇이게요(なんだと思います?)と意味は同じですが

前の言葉が받침(終声になる子音)がある言葉なら後ろに무엇이게요

받침(終声になる子音)がないか’ㄹ’の言葉なら後ろに뭐게요を使用。

I feel like I’ve never heard of this construction. I probably did but just didn’t notice but considering how long i’ve been at this it’s strange.  i’m sure the other Korean learners also feel that other grammar constructs that delivers the same meaning are used more frequently.  Is this common? it seems like it would be common or useful. It really is strange to me because I’ll watch episodes talk/variety shows and  I swear no one ever said muh-ge. I literally feel like I’ve heard every other construct but this for muh. Now that I’m aware of this now I can NOTICE if truly is useful and used. as of now i’ve never heard anyone use 뭐게요は文法的に or  무엇이게요 outside  of iu’s song

just to give a reference to make this whole situation clear I’ll watch a talk/varietyi show usually a talk show actually and i’ll understand 95-100% and i usually look up words that are unknown as i watch the show becasue the words are not that frequent to the point where i’m pausing the show every 4 seconds . usually i look up the word and rewind the show 20 seconds while i read the definition then rewatch the scene and keep watching and then add thatword to anki in mcd format later on that week etc. As you can tell that’s a lot of korean i’m hearing and comprehending in the span of the 50 minute show and it’s multiple episodes and also different shows so i feel like i have pretty good handle on common/useful/ daily conversation korean. so it’s like mind-blowing to come across something that seems so basic and useful and common yet i’ve never encountered it. and of course i’m not trying to be arrogant. we all need to free ourselves of hubris. humbleness is at the core of korean and japanese culture too!  I’m just mind-blown. that is all. that applies to this and the grammar thing from uprs 3

by the way I DO NOT INCLUDE GUHARA AND THAT OTHER KOREAN mc korea that talk like barbaric slobs in my comprehension percentage. it is irritating enough listening to their voices. if they say something and i don’t understand it or don’t catch it i do not bother rewinding though i do rewind almost always for japanese or for other korean people. when it comes to it it’s THEIR FAULT i didn’t catch it or understand it. also i only care to understand what i want to understand. I have the same policy towards beat takeshi and udo-chan because it’s THEIR DAMN FAULT i don’t understand them and they usually don’t say anything interesting.  i don’t avoid shows that star guhara and that other ugly annoying korean mc because that would just limit viable korean shows that much more. it’s hard enough as it is. and i have a feeling that part of the reason that they’re so hard to understand is because they’re lazy with moving their words and pronouncing and enunciating shit clearly. i have a strong feeling. it’s a conviction. so it pisses me off that more. if some fluent korean speakers would like to confirm this that would be lovely!

btw i love chiebukuro. i get quick awesome answers in a language that is effortless to read.

Aw Shit. Never Mind.

Posted in korean, language learning by choronghi on August 28, 2016

dfhushwueihwiue  sdfjdsoifjdsoifew

sdfsdfwefew 

So I just made a post about my progress in Korean and all that I’ve learned… (if you want more concrete info you can check out my anki deck by searching choronghi.. .but Like I said in that post I don’t really use my anki properly for Korean so I know probably 50% of the words in there as in if I were to encounter the word in a Korean show even if the card is in my deck I’ll probably look it up again!! because I have no idea if that card is even in my deck)
But then again I just learned the word “and” in Korean which makes it sound like my Korean comprehension ability is really basic and shoddy.

삼사위원이자 3반 트랙의프로듀서
When I came across this sentence in UPRS season 3 my gut instinct was DO NOT LOOK THIS SHUT UP IN THE DICTIONARY. IT WILL NOT BE THERE ( my gut feeling WAS RIGHT. I hate wasting time looking up shit that is not in the dictionary which is way more prevalent in korean than japanese). FYI all the japanese grammar is IN THE japanese monolingual DICTIONARY While for some korean doesn’t list all the grammar. wtf. So I went to chiebukuro and asked and no one answered and I wanted an answer sooner than later so I enlisted the help of the lang-8ers on lang-8 sure enough they came swiftly to rescue me from the frustrations of not understanding stuff.

here’s the explanation I got from a very helpful lang-8er 🙂

http://lang-8.com/869713/journals/146699303559777214863145541300399146030
That’s really high level grammer. Even though Korean, It’s difficult to differentiate their nuance. So, Korean SAT(수능) used to set them as questions. I’ll try to expain but I can’t be sure about that you can understand my poor english.

First,

As you know, “~이자” has no diffences in meaning with “랑/하고/과/와”.

“~이자” is actually combined thing with “이” and “자”

“이” is predicative pospostional particle(서술격조사). it can make “~이자” uses after noun.

and

“자” is conjunction. it can make “~이자” has meaning as “and”.

“~이자” is more like “at the same time” in english rather than just “and”, because “자” has meaning of ‘sth possess some qualification and another qualification’.

So, you can easily find “~이자” after human rather than things.

ex)
i) She is my mother and my best friend.
ii) She is my mother at the same time she is my best friend.
– ii) is more often transelated to “그녀는 나의 어머니”이자” 나의 좋은 친구 이기도 하다.” in korean rather than i)

Two,

I am highly recommend you use “그리고” rather than “랑/하고/과/와” and “~이자” as a meaning of “and”.

there are some grammatical rules in use them.

For example, “랑” and “하고” is not recommended to use in formal language especially dissertation and contract. because, they are colloquial style.

However, you can use “그리고” in anytime and any situation.

I get these moments in Japanese where I’m like even though I read a 100 books and watched thousands of hours of talk/variety shows I’ll come across something (words usually…) that seems so basic or easy or common sense that I still do not know… but none of them have been this extreme where I didn’t the word for “and” lol. Just thinking about the word “and” in English it just seems so ludicrous that I didn’t know it. I definitely could not infer the meaning from the context. And hopefully with that there are no more words for “and” in Korean that I do not know about… if it’s like archaic shit that hasn’t been used since the 1500s or something that’s fine (I don’t give a shit) but if it’s actually used like in an episode of UPRS I am embarrassed to not know it lol.

actually isn’t the more appropriate word to translate ija cum? If I think of it that way it is kinda advanced. I have yet to ever hear anyone use the word cum in speech. I’ve only read that usage in the books.

korean vowels piss me off sometimes because sometimes it doesn’t sound like what it’s supposed t sound like GODDAMNIT.

Posted in korean, korean tv by choronghi on September 14, 2013

https://i2.wp.com/imageshack.us/a/img202/8836/yo7v.png

so i know korean learners bitch like OMG i cannot differentiate the vowels they all sound the same. i don’t understand their feelings to be honest… but this is as close to their feelings as i can get lol. for the people who are like omgs how do i improve my korean listening.. it’s simple LISTEN READ ETC. just don’t write lol…. seriously why the hell do people practice writing hanguel. it’s the dumbest thing i’ve ever heard of.  dumb as in EXTREMELY UNPRODUCTIVE.   writing kanji abillion times it not productive, and writing hanguel a billion times is less productive. write it once, the end. if you don’t remember what it looks, don’t worry you eventually after reading for 5 more minutes lol! seriously.

https://i0.wp.com/imageshack.us/a/img543/9739/ao5j.png

i just saw the clip of a show (the contents in this show is so bleh compared to japanese shows… they have more useful info than this on japanes shows with people accomplishing a lot in more!! ) and heard 펴정변화 but it’s obvious from the context that she’s saying 표정변화 . maybe it’s just because ‘im not doing the akatt all the time or the announcer lady is f’ing up or is being lazy. OR IT JUST SOUNDS AMBIGUOUS. i wouldn’t know because i’m not fluent in korean nor do i have the capacity or desire or time to listen to that much korean in one day let alone continuously to the point i have 9.99% confidence that i hEARD this frikin vowel that sounds like OTHER FRIKIN’vowel correctly.
here you be the judge too!

https://i2.wp.com/imageshack.us/a/img580/2192/siao.png

it’s the part where she eats that CAPSACIN FILLED FOOD.

https://i1.wp.com/imageshack.us/a/img208/7510/i397.png

this other time i was listenig to hanaguk’drama’s audio thing and i think she said  용기 or something and it sounded like she said it wrong like some other vowel… ㅕㅓㅜㅏㅓㅑㅓㅕㅜ any one of the other vowels lol with the 용 part and i was like HOLD UP and then re-wound and it sounded like youngi and it sorta didn’t at the same time. 聞こえるような聞こえないような… i was thinking did her tongue f up, did she just say wrong vowel at that moment, or does she sometimes hit that vowel and sometimes does not or am i hearing it wrong or does it sound ambiguous etc etc. i’m just curious of the relationship between foreigners and korean vowels. i was comment ask her about that whole situation but i forgot to i have no idea which audio blog it was or what minute or second it was lol.

++

In this song where this guy was rapping he kept saying 좋아하는 which sounded like 조박…. not sure if it’s my ears or that’s just what it sounds like… frustrating no? he is rapping so he stresses words weird of course.

this is what jobak means y’lal btw

조박 [糟粕][명사]糟粕。1.[명사] ⇒재강.2.[명사] (学問·書画·音楽などで)古人がすべてをあきらかにしたので全く新鮮味のないことのたとえ。

++

9:25 ___와애정

격려(キョンリョ)→激励です。
it sounded like 경려 to me then, and it sounds like 경려 to me now… is it the lady or is it me????

https://i1.wp.com/imageshack.us/a/img818/6969/wdpx.png

Previous Post

Posted in k-indie, language learning by choronghi on January 27, 2012

Thank you! this is some exicting development though this really isn’t since the entry is from JULY.

so this might/probably be better than lingoes!!! It has monolingual, and you don’t have to isolate the noun, maybe for the verb you still have to unconjugate which is understandable.

I hope it’ll make learning from song lyrics/drama lines more EFFICIENT

Learn korean frm super junior. kpop song

Posted in kpop, language learning, music by choronghi on January 25, 2012

So I listened to the song sorry soryr because IU performed her cover on some tv show. and a japanese tv show aired a clip of that TV SHOW. the tv show has NAKATA from oriental radio/rajio who is ALSO on that japanese show called nakayoshi terebi which deals with japan and foreign countries and their differences and ways each country is proud of itself etc etc.

BUT ANYWAYS that’s how I got to IU singing this song and me watching super junior on youtube. I usually have low tolerance for kpop and to be honest I did’nt like the song that much … the version sang by super junior that much till I herad it a couple times.

Because there’s so many guys… members. at certain points in the song I go oh I like that guy’s voice etc etc even though it has that distorted effect on it.  I was thinking while listening to it that’s it’s repetitive which is good for learning.

I just wanted to point out korean you can learn/remember from the song .

this song really works cause it’s mad repetitive and if you like it , it obviously helps.

so first of all this link    – hmm I can’t find the exact page of his grammar guide that i was thinking of but this one has it. It just has the rule I’m gonna put here below.

The conjugation  ㅣ 다 -> ㅕ is rampant in this song !

빠져 -> 빠지다

부셔 -> 부시다.

미쳐

막혀

버려

so it’s clear what michuh and makhuk unconjugate to right? Then you can look up the unconjugated verb with lingoes or whatever dictinoary you like.

once you conjugate the stuff to ㅕ form you can attach mad crap to it

examples  막혀+ 버리다-> 막혀버리다

in the song they also conjugate   버리다 to 버려 to make it informal and casual and cool lol.

막혀버려

막혀 + 보다 -> 막혀보다 if you want to make it conversational you turn it into 막혀봐

막혀 +  주다 -> 막혀주다and to turn this into conversation/casual  막혀줘

빠져  + 요 -> 빠져요  and now you have polite form just from attaching YO to this form.

there’s definitely more right? it’s like the -te form of japanese… it’s mad useful and basic and songs are definitely helpful remembering the fun way as opposed to grind-grind-cram-

It’s interesting how the person who wrote the lyrics like did it like this.

For further conjugation rules go to link I put above. I just felt like pointing out this rule cause it seems like this song would be a really easy way to remember since it’s repetitive and if you happen to like the song too then that’s also helpful, for me the song grew on me lol and I don’t have much to learn from this song… maybe a couple words but I don’t care enough to go through this song lol. singing along with the ㅕ conjugated crap and the english parts is enough for me. lolz.

and FYI I think the stuff in this song caan be used in daily conversatoin if want to say “I can’t breathe or  I’m gonna go crazy or I’m obsessed with you or my eyes are in agony from the bright light (my eyes are blinding)”. korean people do say I’m gonna crazy/i’m gonna go insane frequently in daily conversation though lol (Japanese people dont’ though…) . but they don’t do this conjugation they do 미치겠어 . and remember, just stick on the yo and it’s polite! 미치겠어요.

Sorry, Sorry, Sorry, Sorry
내가 내가 내가 먼저
네게 네게 네게 빠져
빠져 빠져 버려 baby

Shawty, Shawty, Shawty, Shawty
눈이 부셔 부셔 부셔
숨이 막혀 막혀 막혀
내가 미쳐 미쳐 baby

바라보는 눈빛속에 눈빛속에 나는마치
나는마치 뭐에홀린놈
(이젠 벗어나지도 못해)

걸어오는 너의모습 너의모습 너는마치
내심장을 밟고왔나봐
(이젠 벗어나지도 못해)

어딜가나 당당하게 웃는 너는 매력적
착한여자 一色이란 생각들은 보편적

도도하게 거침없게 정말 너는 환상적
돌이킬 수 없을 만큼 네게 빠져 버렸어.

*Sorry, Sorry, Sorry, Sorry
내가 내가 내가 먼저
네게 네게 네게 빠져
빠져 빠져 버려 baby

Shawty, Shawty, Shawty, Shawty
눈이 부셔 부셔 부셔
숨이 막혀 막혀 막혀
내가 미쳐 미쳐 baby

딴딴 딴따다 따 따란딴,
딴딴 딴따다 따
(네게 반해버렸어 baby)

딴딴 딴따다 따 따란딴,
딴딴 딴따다 따 따라빠빠라

(Hey, girl) gir, gir, gir, gir, gir, girl, i 눈만뜨면 니 생각
(Hey, girl) 자나깨나 사실 너 하나밖에 안보여

(말해봐) 니 맘에 내가
(말해봐) 자리 잡았는지
(말해줘) 내게 말해줘
(나는 바보 바보 바보)

주변사람들은 말해. 내가 너무 적극적
이 세상에 그런사람 어디 한둘이냐고

그걸몰라, 그녈몰라 시기하며 하는 말
내가 부럽다면 그건 그대들이 지는 거

Sorry, Sorry, Sorry, Sorry
내가 내가 내가 먼저
네게 네게 네게 빠져
빠져 빠져 버려 baby

Shawty, Shawty, Shawty, Shawty
눈이 부셔 부셔 부셔
숨이 막혀 막혀 막혀
내가 미쳐 미쳐 baby

딴딴 딴따다 따 따란딴,
딴딴 딴따다 따
(네게 반해버렸어 baby)

딴딴 딴따다 따 따란딴,
딴딴 딴따다 따 따라빠빠라

Let’s dance dance dance dance
Let’s dance dance dance dance
Let’s dance dance dance dance dance dance

Hey 이제 그만 내게 와줄래. 정말 미칠 것만 같아 yeah
난 너만 사랑하고 싶어. 절대 다시 한눈 팔 생각 없어 hey-

애인이라기보다 친구같은 내가 되고 싶어
너의 모든 고민, 슬픔, 함께 간직하고파

다시없을 만큼 만큼 너를 너무 사랑해
내가 바란 사람. 니가 바로 그 that that that girl.

*Sorry, Sorry, Sorry, Sorry
내가 내가 내가 먼저
네게 네게 네게 빠져
빠져 빠져 버려 baby

Shawty, Shawty, Shawty, Shawty
눈이 부셔 부셔 부셔
숨이 막혀 막혀 막혀
내가 미쳐 미쳐 baby

Example of learning Korean from Korean Music!

Posted in kpop, language learning, music by choronghi on January 11, 2012

Basically I’ll just highlight certain things in the sample songs to show like how you have to unconjugate crap to actually look it up. Little example/tutorial.  It’s like one of the reasons why learning songs from japanese is so frikin’ easy especially compared to korean with the rikai-chan and no worries about conjugating even cause rikai-chan does it for you.

But anyways for the resources like that grammar guide that teaches the conguation + dictionaries REFERENCE the previous entry.

https://choronghi.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/learning-korean-from-korean-music/

I’m gonna do it all K->J for the example, if you wanna do english well use the english/korean dictionaries.  . I would do K-> K at this point but I haven’t found fast-reliable way to do that… in the end k->J is faster to look up so until I find some nice k->k- I dunn wanna do that.

웃음 Lucia + (Duet With Epitone Project)

This song’s not on youtube but you can download it somewhere on the internet…

Gonna put a * for all the lines in the song so it doesn’t get so confusin loking.

Underline is particles.

***벼랑 같았던 시간에서 널 만난 건***

같았던→같았다→같아→같다

널→ 너를

만나다→ 만난

건 → 것은

***어쩌면 우연인걸까 아직 웃음나***
인걸까 = grammar thing

나 → 나다 So this one might confuse you. 이나 also has a meaning but it’s clear from the context                 and the way she sings it that it’s obviously 이 the particle + 나 from 나다

***두 손 마주 붙잡고 걸었던 많은 시간***

붙잡고→ 붙잡다

걸었던 → 걸었다 → 걸어 → 걷다

많은 → 많다
***때론 거짓말 같아서 아직 웃음나***
때론 →때로는

같아 → 같다 . 서 = grammar thing

***어쩔 수 없던 시간 누구 아냐***

어쩔 수 없던  → ~~없다

아냐  아니야

***어쩌면 우연인걸까 그래서 웃음이나***
***두 손을 마주 붙잡고 걸었던 많은 시간***
***때론 거짓말 같아서 그래서 웃음이나***

***아직 기억해 우리 모습들***

기억해. 해 → 하다
***때론 어제일 같아서 그래서 웃음이나***

*가끔 꿈만 같아서 그래서 웃음이나

꿈 만 are 2 different words so you got look up 꿈  and 만 but they’re both really common words  so                 I doubt anyone got all confused because of that.

The song’s pretty simple so I only learned 2 words but it sounds really nice so I listened to it a lot. So go find it and listen it. ‘sall

https://i1.wp.com/img9.imageshack.us/img9/6893/35042227.png

This is lingoes. the setting i used to make it show the definition by clicking shift and clicking furiously (cause the program is glitchy) to get it working… is..

https://i0.wp.com/img515.imageshack.us/img515/8174/89809517.png

LONELY by 2ne1

I’m only gonna talk about one line with this grammar point

지금 내가 하는 얘기 널 아프게 할지 몰라
아마 날 죽도록 미워하게 될꺼야
내가 예전 같지 않다던 네 말 모두 틀린 말은 아니야

I believe that luke park did’t cover this on his grammar guide as far as my memory goes but anyways it’s pretty easy to google grammar points and finding explanations at least in japanese.and honestly he explains all the common /useful crap so by the time you get through that i don’t see why you can’t figure it out with google and shit with your knowledge of korean grmamar.

so the last line of the thre lines I posted . 다던 conjugation in 않다던 means  引用:~だといっていた(過去の継続回想)

◆動詞 母音語幹 -ㄴ다던
子音語幹 -는다던
その他(補助語幹含む)- 다던

which means that the guy “said that”  that’s the 다던 part. so it means that the guy said “내가 예전 같지 않다” actually can’t you think of 다던  as “” marks. does that make the explanation easier?

There’s also

◆動詞 母音語幹 -ㄴ다는  引用:~だという
子音語幹 -는다는
その他(補助語幹含む)- 다는

but it makes sense that she used the one above instead of this becaues the one above has that nuance 過去の継続回想.  回想 means reflection/ reminiscence and 継続 which means continuing.

FYI if you care I tried singing along with it and like for the first couple times it was really heard to pronounce that part 않다던 for some reason just because of the da-dun part AND AND i keep pronouncing it like anata or anta in japanese which is really bad lol. I really am trying to pronounce it correctly but the japanese is just in me  😦 .

OR MAYBE I’m just being over-sensitive because 않다던 sounds like anta and i might be just saying it fine. I can’t help but feel like I’m saying it like anta just because the line is just fast and when it’s fast whatever comes out, comes out. 😦

the japanese really is not good for my korean pronunciation cause japnaese makes me move my mouth less (it’s very minimal especially compared to english/korean.) like i’m prety sure japanese people’s katsuzetsu would be better if they also can speak another language… like the geinin on ame talk for katsuzetsu warui geinin ) and when i try to read korean my mouth won’t open lol because of the damn japanese….  . ii’lll get over it soon enough hopefully but you know i don’t have the shitty american accent or the korean accent with my japanaese (thank god… those accents are annoying like the ZU -namari with the korean people) and I have that intonation shite down! 🙂  AND like I’ve seen foreigners since this song on the korean talent shows and they always fuck up that part and THAT PART ALWAYS SOUNDS like chinese or something. that pisses me off lol. I get it’s hard to pronounce. I experienced it too but if you can’t fix it, please don’t sing it lol. it sounds like chinese. nothing against chinese it s just the pronunciation is just dirty and ruins it.  😦

LIKE THE REASON I sorta gave up on shadowing that I said I was gonna do in the previous post is because the korean actors have really really good enunciation. They talk fast but their pronunciation/enunciation is really good/impeccable too which obviously they are since they only speak korean except for those speakers that also speak awesome english. Basically ,it’s just hard to keep up. well nothing AKATT can’t fix but i mean is very um… disconnected lol which kills the last three letters.. ATT but alas I guess my goal as of now is improving vocab and increasing my ability to conjugate/unconjugate verbs and adjectives and all that stuff in the non-painful way (which means i’m not gonna memorize the conjugation rules. I’m just gonna be aware and if it shows up I go oh they conjugated like ___ since it’s ___). Fun enlightenment as opposed to drilling.  It’s like one of the reasons why those people that post videos of themselves speaking korean think so long and hard and give us mostly silence then…. actual content with words and shit.

and another ting concerning the song

미워하다 . I saw this and I thought of 미웝다 (which conjugates to 미워운 for describing crap while for japanese you don’t even have to conjugate you just put the word next it ie 憎たらしい→憎たらしい人 but then again you have to for -na adjectives but all you do is stick -na. that’s so easy right? ) and I thought oh shit don’t tell me this is some verb conjugation shit but it’s not cause they’re 2 different words (thank you dictinoary)…. I think they’re adjectives. the thing with korean is the adjectives are like verbs so I just want to just call them verbs….