便乗 ( I still remember first hearing this word on nobuta wo produce! go my memory! :)) びんじょうーfor those who haven’t read/heard it and assumed it’s benjou. it aint no benza 😀
so before I read this post
I was actually trying to write about that in the iron leaguer entry as short or long the post is currently depending on your perspective. just because it’s such a big deal at least to me or the me 3-4 years ago or even 5 years ago. i could’ve never imagined achieving this level in Japanese. I could get a billion people on lang-8 saying oh you’re japanese rocks or whatever but it’s nothing compared to exceptional comprehension of real real japanese (by exceptional i mean with ease and all that. right now i don’t have ease lol butttttttt it’s still comprehension which still says a lot).
the reason I didn’t finish writing that was because i didn’t want to deal with the sound like an ass vs. saying something that’s just plain true and warranted (writing stuff carefully so i don’t come off like an ass is laborious andannnnnnoying… it just takes mad effort to polish your entry so that your ideas come across the way you want it to be taken). and then her post reminded me of the post i was gonna do.
and truth be told reading japanese novels aren’t that hard as far as reading it to follow what’s going on/comprehend/etc (if you’re talking about being to read all the kanji that’s another story. if you’re talkig about 90% comprehension, that’s another story) i don’t know what % you need to underatnd/enjoy/folow the story but it’s definitely less than 90%. sure your enjoyment and your comprehension of the story (as far as understanding the characters and the depth or whatever like the nuances) will be greatly incresad with greater % of comprehension. enjoying literary japanese is different than undersatnding enough to get by and follow the story.
i’m not saying that’s what she’s doing because obviously she’s highlighting and looking up stuff.
I just wrote that to encourage the reading of japanese books. it’s really not a big deal. let’s get over it, k. i don’t get those people that wait 5 years to finally readtheir japanes books after doing those boring ass decks on srs that would make anyone want to committ suicide ? i just really do not undersatnd those people. i really feel think that once they read the book or many books they’ll realize they wasted all this time on really inorganic flashcard crap or whatever other bullshit. I only waited 2 years (2 years into studying japanes) ONLY ONLY because i didn’t know that there was a japanese bookstore near me. it’s not even waiting because i didn’t even know about the existance of the accesibility of japanese books. they got books with furigana and no not all of them suck balls. like any media, you gotta find the ones that grab you/appeal to you. no duh. there are jidou books that are well-written/well-crafted enough that even adults can enjoy them and that also means that it’ll probably also be very enjoyable for japanese readers. i just really hate the stigma of japanese = impossible. kanji = impossible, nobodys got the billion hrs needed to leran howto read/write them.
so on to the gloating and the oh yeas and the go me! lol.
i feel like i’m allowed to say all that because I did put effort into learning japanese. there was a beginning stage where I was like omg how am i gonna hear the difference between long/short vowels/i cannot hear kango words for my life/ everyone talks too fast/ how the hell does anyone understand japanese news etc etc. I did the AJATT (not to the full extreme) so i did have a lot of fun learning too and i was blessed with my circumstances for the amount of time i could use on doing something in japanese. I remember trying to learn from anime in the beginning in the stages and it was just so hard because i cannot CATCH what they’re syaing so i cannot LOOK UP anything or i look up everything it sounds like which may or may not work which means it’s a waste of time… it’s not even like all the aniem i liked at the time has japanese subs. i didn’t even know about korean subs on clubbox.
how do you prefer seeing japanesetv shows/movies… watching it in japanese while you’re fluent in japanese or watching it with english subs while you’re fluent in english. everyone is gonna say the former.
it’s just not the same. I want to just say again yeah that’s true. i experienced first hand. i just really understood that even more when iwatched iron leaguer. just recently, i rewatched this snl clip of jae bum park /jay park where he covers that rihanna eminem song and this time around i clicked on the one with the english subs. i was reading the subs because i wanted to see if i really understood the song last time when i read the korean l yrics ( i looked up a few things at that time) and the translation doesn’t do justice
first things right off the bat was 눈빛 was just neglected/ignored in the translation. not sure if there’s away to incorporate that into the translation but like you know it makes me sad cause the person is missing out if they only know english and these are the subs that they have .
i really really really really understood iron leaguer and enjoyed it that much mroe because of my ability to enjoy it in the language it wa smade in (I noticed stuff afterwards that i didn’t understand which was all the katakana lol which somebody was educating me on on tumbrlr – it’s like katakana crap that google translate/yaho dic doesn’t know…) . because I’m not fluent there are times where i can’t catch what they say or i have to rewind to be like hey did i iss anything they said or i wasn’t sure if i catched all the syllables (I’m not used to watching anime.. and japanese is just so syllable heavy) I’m not fluent so i did put in effort to look up words or expressions they used that i’m not that familiar with or i’ve heard it before but for some reason i’m not sure if i’m getting it so i look it up again to see if there’s another meaning or nuance or refresh myself whatever. I did hvae to re-listen, or ask japanese people hey what did they say ( and actually some of the times the stuff they say is actually easy/common/basic japanese… I just couldn’t catch what they were saying!!!! that frustrates the crap out of me! lol but it doesn’t change the fact it didn’t sound like to me the 10 times itried to catch it. it’s not like i have trouble following/undersatnding japanese in general because i kickass with understanding/watching talk/variety. it’s just i guess i’m not used to anime. ). and then if what htey transcribed doesn’t make sense then i ask wtf does that mean. sometimes the sports lingo is just … wow impossible to catch…. how can you catch words that you don’t know. sometimes you can, sometimes it’s just impossible. I went through every episode after i watched them because i love the show so much and it’s so enjoyable and it does have re-watch value and i really want to know every single line from the show. i didn’t re-watch the episode or anything. what i do is, i use the korean subs that are translated to japanese (to help with my heraing) and use that (the video is 4:3 so i can make the subs vertical and have it not cover any part of the video) and as i watched if there’s parts where i want to re-listen/did not understand/etc etc i write down the line so later on i can just go through the lines i wrote down. now, i don’t copy the whole line.. i just copy the bare minimum necessary to find the line in the .srt file later on by writing down unique combination of hiragana/kanji that’s in the line. i don’t thikn i have to give an example. it’s just logic. you copy the part of the line that is the most unique as in least likely to be in another line. So what I do may or may not work for people who don’t read japanese as fast as i do. this personally works for me because i’ve gotten much faster with reading japanese.
having done this i would say i got like 99% of the lines or really near 100% from THE 52 EPISODES because there were a couple lines where even japanese are like this is hard to catch or i think they said this. it is 52 episodes so it’s probably 99%. Honestly undersatnding anime 70% or 80% really is not big a deal imo at least with the curent standdards i set for myself.
but anyways my goal is fluency as in fluent undrestanding (you know watch a show and follow it and enjoy it, get all the nuances… effortlessly). as in not what i did iron leaguer which was a little bit laborious but it’s so worth it because i love the show. I learned a lot of japanes 🙂 just because it’s kids show doesn’t mean there isn’t any japanese to learn from it. they don’t hold back anything japanese wise just because it’s for children. anime japanese is real japanese. i mean if you’re watching chi cat neighbor anime that everyon ekeeps recommending even though it looks boring as f*** then there literally might be nothing to learn from it.
What I attribute to being able to reach a leevel where i can figure out what they say if i do re-wind it and relisten to it a couple times or be able to catch what they say and look it up or only catch a part of what they say and still be able to look it up….. is definitely experience. an esential part of improving one’s japanese is the grammar, the vocab, the expressions, the kotowaza, and not really the yojijukugo (why the hell are people doing the yojijukugo deck, it’s not like you’re even gonna recognize ti when somebody says it. that’s what mcds are for but… come on why the f u learnin that from a deck). to improve all that, you gotta READ A LOT, LOOKing UP STUF- being proactive about it. being passive is just wasting YOUR TIME ( not necessarily looking up anything and everything but you know enough to help you make more connections/notice more stuff, and improving your understanding, getting used to japanese that much more), listen to a lot of japanese ( i mean active as in like a tv show that I enjoy watching). you just need a lot of exposure and context to learn all the words and the verbs and whatnot. with books you also exposed to more vocab because books are just like that. there’s also the literary japanese component to books which i absolutely enjoy. i love reading well-written stuff.
anyways i’m not sure how much waiting the 1 or 2 years till i watch iron leaguer helped but i’m sure it helped because i probably did learn a lot of words/grammar. i make it sound like i study or something with the previous sentence which is not true. i just do stuff in japanese that i enjoy doing and look up stuff and addd worthy things anki.
I put the percentage estimate before with the 99% or whatever because i realllllly am paranoid that being passive is just ineffective.
++ like in my intermediate stage with dramanote and j-dramas. i was at a point where i undersatnd 70% or something and the other 30% is a combination of cannot catch what they (one reason might be because they talk too fast or too much kango)/i do not know the word/ my japanese is not good enough to infer meaning (whether it’s a word i don’t know or a word they make up on the show or wordplay or whatever) or follow it (at that tempo). I just felt like if i just keep watching j-dramas with my 70%~~~ undersatnding without putting in any effort i’m never gonna reach that point where it’s 99% comprehension. i felt like i was gonna be at 70% forever
(at least if i kept watching it raw. if i kept watching with japanese subs then maybe it’s a different story). so i didn’t do that. iput in effort to learn words and look up stuff… and it wasn’t just limited to dramas because i enjoy other mediums from japan. i think a lot of people misunderstand ajatt that if you just watch a billion hours of jdrama you’ll eventually undersatnd it 100% but that’s not what ajatt is. watching a lot if part of it but you still GOTTA be active about it and look up stuff. I LOVE how people just summarize and explain how i feel so well on forums.
i think it comes down to personal prefernce as well as what you’re watching (how much you like it. the quality etc etc) and what resources you have available to figure out/comprehend/ this puzzle or caccophony of sounds you can’t decipher as well as much how much you want to undersatnd as well as how much of it you want to undersatnd (they could be blogs or the ghetto japanese subs from clubbox, or maybe even japanese subs, english subs are shit usually lol… well it depends).
i personally have a very strong feeling towards one side. one of the reasons is my fears that if i don’t figure out all of it or almost all of it, i’m not gaining much from ths. i really do’t think you learn much watching let’s 100 eps of a j-drama if you don’t put in any effort going through lines or learning vocab/grammar/kotowaza/whatever that may come out from dialogue and situations that occur. i feel like you’d gain more watching 3 eps , going through every line (well not every line… you should be at a level where you undersatnd 50% of the dialogue or the story or something so you’re not looking up everything) then watching 100 eps without doing any looking up. that’s my thing ESPECIALLY for myself and from my past experiences with korean i firmly feel that way.
this thought is also permeating into my englihs, i get more worked up over words i don’t know or can’t catch in english or maybe it’s because i’m used to waching things with subs. but nonethelss, maybe i should try to stop caring so i dont’ get worked up lol. but seriously, i dont remember having all these with hearing words i don’t know and whatnot when i only used/knew enlgish but maybe it was because i didn’t relaly think about it . or maybe the level of the stuff was sorta consistant for the most par t enlgish wise on the tv shows (BUT there’s exceptions ie PSYCH. check out my entry on that tell me you knew all the words and references… well just the words). or another thing i wsa thinkingwas as of now in my private time i don’t listen to much english because i watch japanese shows and korean/japanese music, sometimes korean shows, i stil do watch america nstuff like celebrity apprentice is mad fun right now (OMAROSSSSSSA! KUROYANAGI SANNNNNN lol. god tongue referenc here.. daiji or ooji.. what’s his face. maji uta<3).. so my listening ksill might have weakened as far as spontaneous listening without subs lol??? i don’t knows. like when people spurt random crap ,i ‘m not as good on my feet. ex. youtube video of the 911 prediction on rugrats. weird examaple i know. it’s not that i cna’t catch it .. i just feel more nervous i won’t be able to????? because i’m just all english all the time??/ just that comfort level is just not there or i’m just more conscious of itttttt…….. having soemthing that i nevr really gave thoguht to is now overcoming me lol. another thing is eyk. eat your kimchi. martina keeps using quirky, random words and that throws me off and i sometimes didn’t catch what she said and then rewind. i remember the weird kids in my elementary years that would say weird shit or weird words like martina and i had no problem catching what they’re saying ijust thought stop saying weird shit. not to say i don’t like martina for saying random stuff or anything negative like that… that’s just what i pulled from memory bank…. you know, stuff reminds you of other stuff
so the iron leaguer success just makes me feel like i’m getting closer to fluency. I feel like being able to watch and understand anime effortlessly 99% or whatever the percetange becomes once you take out the lines that even japanese can’t catch (sometimes it happens, but not often) is deifnitely one of the signs of fluency. by anime i don’t mean the shit that’s being madee right now where everything looks loli/eroge/very… soulless. I mean quality, well-written anime with the quality voice-acting and whatnot. i wouldn’t say near-fluent because i know what fluency is so i’m gonna sugar-coat or overexaggerate anything.