초롱이 ★  ごきげんよう

How to sound more like a Japanese native

Posted in Japanese by choronghi on April 5, 2013

https://i2.wp.com/imageshack.us/a/img593/9560/0071012202sp.png

shingo totally disappeared ~no surprise!

These are actually ALSO reasons why i feel like my japanese won’t ever be sounding japanese native level fluent (production) which is A realistic statement. It’ll definitely take time especially since I don’t live there. I’ve said in the past that m goal is not producing but inputting  bc I enjoy japanese media/ entertainment so much or rather theres so much of it… no seriously, there’s no end to it lol.

there’s more reasons but these are the ones that are in my head right now. the numbers are not rankings. i actually hate people who make ranking posts like best/top whatever of the year or ever or whatever. it just pisses me off.
keion
Gion like no tomorrow
擬音 模擬店
ぎおん・ もぎてん
so in japanese, in korean they use mad gion. in english, we have it but we don’t use it that much.
like let’s say you wanted to say he’s really hair down there. you don’t say けぶかい. i mean you can it’s just there’s also ボボやんけ if you speak kansai-ben.

ポキっとした
げっそり痩せる
ワサっとなって I heard somebody use it in the talk/variety show and i couldn’t figure out from the sentnce what it meant. the geinin was describing a girl in a dress and a gust of wind passed or something and then he said that phrase about something. i was like wtf. and then i read the deifniton and then i was like i gots it. i don’t know if it’s because i’m bad at inferencing but i couldn’t figure it out. even if i figure it out or i’m really sure, i stilll check because i’m paranoidi’m wrong. as much as i’ve ben developing my japanese language intuition.. it’s not perfect. i’m not fluent.

some gion off the top of my head. i tried to include common and not that common at least from my experience with my contact with japanese for the past however many years.
プルプルする
ゴニョゴニョ
くすくす笑う
ぐらっとなって hint: you can and people do…  is they shorten the gion. ie guragura suru -> guratto suru
ポイと捨てて
ぽかんと口を開ける
ムラムラする LOL
むかむかする
カリカリする
ボヤッとする

べろべろ飲んで

どんよりする
うつらうつらする (is this even gion?)

Miyagawa daisuke is known for his gion on suberanai hanashi. In fact one time I couldn’t follow his story bc there was so much gion lol. it was literally 80% gion 20% body movements if my memory serves me correctly. seeing as i have no experience talking to japanese people in real life i’m definitely  gonna have a harder time than the geiin around hiim who are understanding him to undersatnd. i only see japanese people tla kto each other on japanese tv.
https://i0.wp.com/imageshack.us/a/img820/7752/120915.png
Tips for learning gion
Obviously feel it!!! It’ll help you learn more and get used it which also means getting used to Japanese. Of course you might be feeling it in another way than the Japanese people. In fact on a show they asked foreigners what does dokidoki sound like to you etc etc. the results were quite interesting. I think you’re better off listening to japanese people say the gion rather than you reading the gion out loud  (i understand that’s not always possible if you’re reading a book or  a website or seomting). I just think that’s usually more memorable and the japanese person usually says it with the right amount of gusto and emotion (it helps you feel it ) . and you might read it like really emotionlessly or with the wrong intonation for all we know. going through a list of gion by yourself makes no sense imo. it’s just gonna be torturous to cram that into your brain or make it sound like what it means when you don’t speak japanese.

https://i0.wp.com/imageshack.us/a/img593/7752/120915.png
if you wanna focus on gion see if any interesting youtube videos are uploaded like the one i described.. search gion  擬音> if there’s isn’t any just do something else.

For me I look up he meaning in Japanese ( been that way for quite sometime) and try to feel it. If I don’t feel/hear it then I might feel it more on my next encounter. But I feel like if I didn’t look it up it would jus go unnoticed in my next encounter just bc I didn’t put in effort to make association with it. Sometimes I’ll feel it like something and look it up and it’s totally different!! I m just like damn I don’t get the Japanese peeps. Like I’m not on the same wavelength. Hence a reason why itll help one sojnd more like a japense native. Once u get a bunc of gion down I really can appreciate and enjoy japanese story telling like in talk variet shows and books more. Gion just make it more fun. It adds spice and flavor and all that.

CHILDREN, JAPANESE CHILDREN OWN ME when it comes to gion. they just know all of them and really feels them and really really knows the nuances and everything. No surprise since they only know japanese and it’s been continuious for the past 4 years (I think 4 years olds  and up really know their gion… or am i being to ogenerous)  not sure if they still own me, but i’ve gotten better and learned more over the years with japanese tv and books and songs and anything that’s japanese.

I remember when I first heard that song MARU MARU MORI MORI. i knew like half the gion and the ones i didn’t know i had no idea what they meant. there was some furitsuke (choreography) to sorta help me out and remember the meaning. but let me just say the children undersatnd that song 100% but I don’t because of the gion wall. there just was gion in there i did’t know. some of them i do know it but i feel like i don’t know it or feel it as much as the kids who are fluent in japanese…. i feel like i’m not fully feeling it lolz. but i know that that feeling dissipate as i hear it being used more and more in context and whatnot… especially funny context.

マル・マル・モリ・モリ みんな食べるよ

+ example if you don’t know what maru maru mori mori means you probably will think oh they’re eating something called maru maru mori omri. what kind of dish is that? lol.
ツル・ツル・テカ・テカ 明日も晴れるかな~?
ダバデュア ダバジャバ

+ does this thing even mean anything? i think it doesn’t mean anything unless it’s some pseudo-gion ( as in it doesn’t really exist as a gion or a word or anything but people who are in fluent japanese will just feel something from the sounds of the words)  thing i’m supposed to feel.  perhaps i should watch the music video or performance and figure out if this phrase holds any type of meaning or feel. lolz.  it’s such a cute and fun song.

犬=忘れ物すんなよ

ダバデュア ダバジャバ デュア

大きくなったらお空に 声が届くかな~?
いつまででも いいっしょだよ~
マル・マル・モリ・モリ みんな食べるよ
ツル・ツル・テカ・テカ 明日も晴れるかな~?

悲しくて泣いていた 一人歩く帰り道
こんなとき ほんわかな?
みんなに会いたいな~

マル・マル・モリ・モリ おまじないだよ
ツル・ツル・テカ・テカ にっこり笑顔
12の34で ごま塩さん
たくさんだとおいしいね~

マル・マル・モリ・モリ ぷかぷかお風呂
ツル・ツル・ピカ・ピカ ゴシゴシブラシ
みなさんグッナイ また明日
朝ごはんはなんでしょね~?

ダバデュア ダバジャバ

犬=お腹出して寝るなよ

ダバデュア ダバジャバ デュア

大人になっても 虹色の夢を描こうね~
ゆびきりして テレリンコ~

お星様 きれいだね
手をつないで 願い事
たとえ遠くにいても 心は一つだよ~

マル・マル・モリ・モリ 幸せ元気
テク・テク・トコ・トコ 前に進むよ~
+++for these gion i’ve heard of it, i know the meaning but i haen’t seen it used as much as other gion so i’m not completely feeling it i feel lolz.
12の34でホームラン
愛がいっぱいランドセル~

マル・マル・モリ・モリ 大きくなるよ
ドキ・ドキ・ワク・ワク ドアを開けるよ~

みなさんしっかり また明日
もっとすてきな日になる

大好きだよ~

マル・マル・モリ・モリ さぁ 歌いましょ
ツル・ツル・テカ・テカ にっこり笑顔

12の34で ごま塩さん
たくさんだとおいしいね~

マル・マル・モリ・モリ ぷかぷかお風呂
ツル・ツル・ピカ・ピカ ゴシゴシブラシ

みなさんグッナイ また明日
朝ごはんは なんでしょね~?
いつもいつも ありがとう~

ダバデュア ダバジャバデュビドゥバ
ダバデュア ダバジュバ デュア~

犬=よくできました

++ I think the thing with this song is, some of the gion in the song is better learned somewhere else than in the context of the phrase in this song (the song expects you feel it… it’s not trying to teach you gion) . i feel like you’re just better off leraning it from another context and then see it being used in this song rather than the other way. like this song is for people who are fluent in gion lol like children.

THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST REASONS why i’ll never i’m fluent in japanese… cause kids own me when it comes to gion lol. i’ve improved a lot as in ilearned a lot but i still feel like i’m not fully feeling it and some of the gion i feel like i’ve grown to reall yfeel it but some of them i don’t think so. there’s still probably gion out there that i haven’t heard yet that the kids know about and use and feel. so…  it’s definitely a lot easier to feel if you only know japanese and that’s your native language. I hope to reach the children’s levels someday!!! lol.

this is also the reason why korean children own my ass in korean lol. By children i mean 4 or older! seriously, they mad good OBVIOUSLY. formekorean gion is harder to remember (for saying it…maybe not so much for recognizing it when it’s used) because korean is 3d with the song and putting the letters together.  I obviously feel japanese gion way more than korean gion since my japanese is so much bettttttttttttter. the recent korean gion or maybe it’s just an adjective that i learned recently was

곤드레-만드레
[부사·하다형 자동사](酒·眠りに)酔って正体なくなったさま:ぐでんぐでん(に);ふらふらに;へべれけ(に)。
【예】곤드레만드레 취하다.  【訳】 ぐでんぐでんに酔う;酔っ払う;酔いつぶれる。
Looks like it’s not a gion from the purple text. but anyways at first i thought it was a grammar thing ( you never know). it was actually used EXACTLY like the dictionary example sentence. it was in song too lol. immortal song!   to be honest, i’m not feeling it lol. it doesn’t sound like what it means.  of the japanese defintions, i’m not familiar with guden guden… I haven’t come across/heard it yet. wonder when i’ll hear it next.

2)  Use ano and eeto properly.
Difference bt Japanese ppl  Here
it and foreigners or foreigners trying really hard to sound japanese even though they don’t know much beyond 101 and hazily at that.
Japanese person blahblahblah ano (1 sec wait) blahblahblah (10 sec)

Foreigner: watashi wa anooooo (10 second wait) hima de ano ( 5 second wait ) tai?? Taikutsu dess…
Japanese ppl use ano and pause really briefly and then continue shooting out japanese. thats just how it is whether it’s talk variety/kisha kaiken , actors/actresses being interviewed at the butai aisatsu, models selling their photobook, etc,etc)….. Japanese learners use ano for uhh sounding japanese?? Of course the difference in duration is inevitable since the naive speaker is much more familiar with japanese and exposed to it and actually uses it or only knows japanese. It’s just very irritating with the japanese learners. I want to shout at them go input nobody gives a shit Abt the crap you’re talking Abt that’s riddles with anos that are followed by 10 sec pauses . actually don’t they also just use eeto and ano just WAY TOO MUCH. i undersatnd that they’re japanese ain’t that good then i say go f’in input instead of making this dumb video on youtube. So ones goal is definitely to use ano like a pro… The Japanese peeps. They just use the ano briefly to collect thought or choose a word and move the f On. The only way to do that is to get good at producing/speaking in japanese so your pause is brief if you do take a pause. of course everyone does that like um…
i mentioned this in a previous post but a really USEFUL grammar thing thati didn’t see in tae kim but picked up like that ** snaps* wihtou looking up anything was KKE. 何だっけ なんと呼ぶんだっけ あたしだっけ お前だったけ。持ってたっけ. now that  i think about it i don’t see people using kke that much. I just happen to see it when i started watching japanese talk/variety shows (when i had trouble looking stuff up because i didn’t do rtk/don’t know many words/kanji. knew basic grammar and japaense song vocab/kanji… hell i didn’t know what uwaki meant or how you read 浮気) . this is really useful and i would recommend japanese learners to use this. obvoiusly don’t abuse the crap out of it but obviously this is gonna be used a lot by japanese learners. if you don’t know what kke means look it up. i’m not tellig. it’s just too obvious.

OH AND I FOUND THIS

■嫌われる話し方2: 必要のない言葉を挟む

「えー」とか、「あのー」といったように、余計な言葉を入れるのも知的な印象を与えられず、好ましくありません。こういうときは、ゆっくり話したり、間をとるようにしたほうがよいのです。

http://www.men-joy.jp/archives/82345

if you can’t understand it, go use rikai-chan!  hell rikai-chan tells you abot the conjguation too.

just think about it logically if somebody say um and ah like every 2 seconds while they talked, wouldn’t that piss you off regardless of whether or not they’re fluent in english or learning english. it’s just annoying.

3) Keigo
But for the love god do not say desu toka!!!

Uh not all japanese can . I think it’s viewed that functioning members of society can and should and u should start getting it down in middle school. I suck at keigoooo but I don’t need to know since I don’t live there

i already posted something on keigo so if oyu want read about that. and i was wondering does card writing, message writing ie in a letter .. just formal messages in general go under the umbrella of keigo. or do people take something like as a model and modify for their own use??? because i can’t tell…. to the point where i would be able to produce it and be 100% it’s correct. i  love formal japanese mesasges. it sounds so nice and elegant and you don’t hear that in daily conversation, daily etc . it’s one of the aspects of japanese i really appreciate

examples are like those celebs that twitted or released a message about the 3.15?3.17? earthquake tsunami thing.  those apologizes after you cheat on your wife and you happen to be famous (I still don’t give why they give a shit about this in japan.  i’m so americans)

EXAMPLE from my deck

東北地方太平洋沖地震で被災さ
れた皆様へ心よりお見舞い申しあ
げると共に、お亡く___なられた方々のご冥福をお祈り申しあげます

ANSWER: に

hirano aya thing (‘i’m not a big fan of her .. just noticed the fancy japanesa when it came up on some news site)

平素は、平野綾オフィシャルファンクラブ「平野塾」をご愛顧いただき、誠にありがとうございます。本日は皆様に大事なお知らせがございましてご連絡差し上げた次第です。

example apology letter:

またお申し出の際に対応させていただいた弊社係員の態度に何かご無礼のありました段、重ねて謹んでお詫び申し上げます。 破損した商品は直ちに回収させていただき代替品を出荷いたしましたので、 宜しくお願いいたします。

I don’t think i’ll ever be able to produce these kind of sentences. people can really write/make these sentences! omgs.  stuff that makes me go ugh i dun gets it is like itadaki vs. itadaite .I nver the diff (I get how each sounds) and i don’t know if it makes difference or not in the contxt of these kind of formal writing. o naku ni narareru makes me go wtf. in the sense i would never produce that. i have no problem undersatnding it itself and the nuance of making it less direct and sticking the o on whatever. and for ご冥福をお祈り申しあげます . you could defiitely remember this word for word if you heard enough people commenting whether it’s verbally or via formal writing about the earthquake or any other tragedy.  if this goes in the realm of fluency i dont’ think i’ll ever get there lolz.

also do not say o yari ni naru or o yari ni narareru (this is probably even worse) yaru = rude, have sex, give something to a dog, etc you can not turn it into keigo no matter how hard youtry. soi was thinking one day hey is that correct japanese? because you know just b.c. they say it on japaens tv doesn’t ea nit’s correct. so i look it up and people are like no it’s wrong. it’s nasaru thta should be used. i thought in that moment WOW  it is wrong and i’m so sure i heard it from somewhere. it was funny becaus ethe chiebukuro answerers were like pssh tv is shit with the dumb talents or geinin or whoever that don’t speak keigo correctly or don’t use correct japanese….. apparently there’s certain pharses/etc etc that’s just wrong incorrect japanese used by people on tv and some people are just apalled. so recently i heard somebody say o yari ni naru on japanese tv. when i was googling o yari ni naru at the time I was pretty sure i heard it from ueda from shabekuri. and whaddya know i heard ueda say that in the shabekuri ep i saw yesterday. it was O YARI NI NARARERU which is double face palm.  i thought ueda speaks good japanese… is that only wrong japanese he spouts? so sad😦 I thought i could trust him. nonetheless him and the gang on shabekuri are some talented, quirky, fun people.

4) Yokuyou intonnation . I wrote Abt this a lot so go read that.
one thing that  i may or may not have mentioned before is that if i try to talk fast or realy freely sometimes my intonation gets f’ed up in the process lol. so that’s another reason i don’t feel fluent. i’m scared if i do drunk japanese talking my yokuyou will fly out the winfdow. i know it’s output, which is not my goal but i gotta compare my english to my japanese and be like hey this looks lacking.
5)  Use rareru
Saseru
Saserareru
Morau etc etc grammar that don’t really exisT in Korean nor used the same way in English bc were damn direct in English goddamnit lol. the more you use this the better. obviousl don’t force it but if that’s what you’re supposed to use, you should be using that grammar and the onyl you can tell is by a lot of immersion. ANOTHER problem with this at least for me… is all the damn R’s. I can never pronounce the rareru as well as the japanese people (the tv peeps). It’s not even like sometimes it goes through and sometimes it don’t. it just doesn’t  lol. too much vowel. anyone know any good exercise for getting therareru down? does being able to roll your tongue help? the thrills in spanish.

6) Don’t talk like idols ie girl idols
This goes for girls and the gay guys? lol. The ones that talk with a high voice or nasal voice or just sounds really strange ie serina. They’re a a 90% chance they are using this fake forced voice to sound more cute or sell etcetc. I personally like the low/deep voice that sawajiri erika uses. I don’t undersatnd people’s fascination to sound like elementary school people/fulfilling weird fetish type wahtevers.

I CANNOT STAND HARI PURO. HLELO PROJECT wit hthe way they sing and talk. it’s so damn irritating to me. I cannot f’in stand it. i feel like yelling at them hey you sound RIDICULOUS lol.

7) Don’t say boku ne
_____ne
As in dont attach ne to anything and everythimg to talk the whole way through. I’ve seen foreigner learning japanese do that. U look really dumb?? But then Again I saw some old man on jtv debating Abt politics talking like that. I found it super irritating. Plus he used mad political kango I cannot make myself care Abt nor catch by ear.

8) Dont say katakanago as it should be in English. It was so funny on this Japanese show when they american Japanese chick kept saying all the katakana in English in mid japanese sentence and no one could understand her lol.
Christmas tree with proper English pronounciation sounded like crispy to ariyoshi (or maybe it didn’t and he just wanted to tell her that it’s really hard to catch english pronounciation).
there was another japanese-maerican girldoing the same thing on ICHI HACHI. it was HLIARIOUS!! I ABSOLUTELY RECOMMEND that episode. anyways she fist of all spoke mad fast… she’s on a japanese show so she’s speaking japanese but she’s speaking unnaturally fast. everyone’s just like wtf. to top it off she kept inserting katakana go since japanese has that. but the thing is she was saying it with an american/engish pronounciation so obviously NO ONE UNDERSTOOD her. it was realy funny but seriously come on….. I loved hamada’s translations lol. he’s prtending he undestood what she be sayin’. i actually understood her. i got what she was saying since her japanese isn’t super awesome and my english is probably better or around hers.

 

https://choronghi.wordpress.com/2013/10/14/hilarious-shit/

actually idon’t do this at all and it’s obvious. ijust found that tv accident to be hilaroius.
lol i found this on 2-ch matome??
http://log.shipweb.jp/?mode=datview&board_name=livetbs&thread_key=1274270593&thread_id=34786

帰国子女とかおかしなサ行の発音とネイティブ英語が普通に出てくるから嫌だ

377 :渡る世間は名無しばかり : 2010/05/19(水) 22:13:08.45 ID:YZiueiep
ロバート・デニーロの発音てこうだったんだ さっぱりわからなかった

378 :渡る世間は名無しばかり : 2010/05/19(水) 22:13:09.32 ID:C46sLrNl
カタカナ読みしろよアバズレめw
here’s definition to abazure 人擦れして品行が悪く、厚かましい人(女性)のこと。

it’s in my deck i could never rememebr lol. its just not used that much????

oh and ichecked out like the special dvd- tokuten (howddya say that inenglish) for hanzakari no kimitachi e on youku by accident. i gotta watch the rest. this is WHY i’m so glad i started learning japanese. how else do i watch it, learn chinese? hell no… thank you chinese people for pirating as always lol. i gotta look up if there’s other tokuten stuff online for other dramas i LOVVVVVVVED

https://i1.wp.com/imageshack.us/a/img825/8483/yohimuya.png

a little pondering point. somebody tell me what’s up …すられる ぬすまれる

so on this show somebody said 財布すられる. i was like what does that mean and then i found out it’s nusumareru basicaly.i was thinking what the f is the difference, just the sound of it? another thing i was thinking was it’s easier to say SU RA RERU THAN NUSUMARERU  because there’s less syllables. i noticed  that when i was listening to random japanese peoples’ conversation they talk fast  i think it’s because japanese has mad syllables so it’s like…. it gets mad long and tiring and shit after a while.. i totally get why someone would say tttsute instead oyutte or itte. it’s easier.
and moments when i don’t feel fluent. sometimes i feel like talk/variety isso easy but i always learn words from it. even if you undersatnd 99% there’s still the 1% that you don’t know but like a native got 100%. like the other day on shabekuri they used thisword i never heard of which was tochimeru and i was like … i have some instinct just by the sound AND the font that used to write tochimeru lol.first they were reading off the card what the theme for the ep was andtochimeru was there. they started talking about tochimeruing and ueda’s like i don’t really do that or something. basically they used it a bunch of times after the inital card-reading. so i was like everyone knows this word but me. i could sorta tell what it means but i just looked up to be sure.

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