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Korean vs. Japanese. Mostly Korean is harder blahblah :( :( complaints

Posted in Japanese, korean, language learning by choronghi on July 9, 2011

I do follow/believe AJATT so I’m sure once I go AKATT enough I’ll be like oh korean is so easy and all that but right now I’m not there so I will write this down for my current and future amusement and or shame. Cause right now I’m very AJATT and like think Japanese is really easy except for like speaking perfect keigo etcetc… and i most definitely cannot speak that super keigo.. whatever youcall it. the japanese the store people use just because i’ve never been to japan so i have very little opportunity to hera that type of japanese. though i’ve had some chance to hear it via tv show a couple times………. but i don’t want that job anywhoos.

Japanese has words that have a lot of meanings and yes korean has words that have multiple meanings but I’m pretty sure Japanese has way more of them (esp since it has less sounds than korean)…. which I find makes Japanese easier for me. Like I found these blog entries on tagigo:

http://hiroharuh.exblog.jp/i10/ which I will study funnily. Yes this sentence sounds weird and probably incorrect or maybe it’s not  but that’s what i want to say….😦 and it would sound completely normal in korean and japanese. These entries make it seem as if Japanese words… the common verbs all have many many definitions. I find it that assuring. I’d rather learn the multiple meanings behind a verb than learn many separate verbs and their respective meanings (that is equal to the amount of meanings with one verb).

The advantage of the former over the other is that it’s faster to learn (you just have to remember that one verb and just pay attention you hear/see it being used and go oh it has more meanings than that VS. remembering many verbs with diff meanigns).

the advantage of the latter over the former is there is going to be less ambiguity…. guaranteed… i feel like it’s gonna be like at first it’s really hard cause let’s be honest it’s very very arbitrarily whether it’s ㅗ as opposed to ㅜ or it’s ㅓ  as opposed toㅏ  just because you’re not used to it (or rather the more words you leran in korean without knowing hanja this house of cards you’re buliding that is the vocabulary you’re building will implode on itself due the arbitrariness) not to mention it’s just more 3d level than japanese…. cause in korean it’s actually an alphabet so build sounds by putting something at the top left, the top right, bottom right, and sometimes there’s two things at the bottom right or sometimes the thing on the top right doubles (ㄲ) while in japanese the most complicated it’ll ever get is like the small tsu… it’s like 1d… ?  but actually korean has this brilliant system with the vowels like with the verb/adjective conjugations… that i’m sure anyone and everyone will come to appreciate insanely once it gets to the point when he/she can conjugate without much effort.

EXAMPLE:

かける can mean and it not limited to : putting on glasses, putting the fire on, taking up time/money, locking the door. And at least for the stuff I just translated to english all require diff verbs in korean while in Japanese it’s all kakeru. And o’course like I said before Japanese has many verbs that have many different meanigns…. partly it has to do with the thing that the verbs homophones so if you put in the kanji.. it’s a different kakeru. so hard to explain.

めがねをかける 안경을 쓰다
鍋を火にかける 냄비를 불에 올려놓다
常識にかける 상직이 부족하다
お金と時間をかける 돈도 시간을 들이다
誰が勝つかかける 누가 이길지 내기를 하다
看板をかける 간판을 걸다
迷惑をかける 폐를 끼치다
馬に乗って野原をかける 말을 몰고 들판을 달리다
月が欠ける 달이 이지러지다
前歯がかけている 앞니가 빠져 있다
窓にカーテンをかける 창문에 커튼을 치다
言葉をかける 말을 건네다
肩に手をかける 어깨에 손을 얹다
鍵をかける 자물쇠를 잠그다

i love how japanese is not as specific as korean with the verbs. stuff that would be a specific verb in korean is ~~~suru in japanese  or one verb serves as 10 verbs lol in comparison to Korean. i love that. of course korean does have its advantages having so many adjectives and specific verbs for specific whatever because once you’re fluent it’ll be super satisfying expressing yourself with colorful sounds AND AND it should sound like what it means which adds to the satisfaction (though i read somewhere the language sounds different if you learned if you were before 6 vs if you’re over the age of 6… like if you learn it before 6 you can never hear korean as a foreign language because it’s so ingrained in you??/ i can’t explain it well but it’s something about that).

http://tsukinofune.tumblr.com/day/2013/05/22

http://tsukinofune.tumblr.com/post/51245168037

– just today i looked up 타다 yes i know thatmeans to ride but the senence was like 대상을 탔다 or smoething like that. it has to do with an award. i type it in and there’s a billion definitions… then i was like fuck this shit  i’m not reading through that. i’m just gonna assume it means 取る 受賞 OR SOMETHING like that. i’m using a k/j dictionary so it’s easier to skim than english/korean dictionary just because of the kanji but even then i don’t want to. this is one of the reasons i would never go korean/ korean monolingual because i will get something that will have a billlllllllion definitions and i’d have to read through single one to fgirue it out while for japanese/korean i can just go not this kanji and keep moving on. so i guess korean especially  should be learned in context …. there will be times where i GO FUCK THIS SHIT .. i’m not reading through all that. IT REALLY IS RIDICULOUS with the sheer number of verbs…. and koreans.. the korean children or when all koreans were children and toddlers they learned all these verbs through immersion/context. sometimes it just makes more sense to just leave it to immersion and go this verb was used with this subject and this noun it probably x y or z or something between x and z and solidify that as you go on to see more context examples… because reading through all that crap will drive you insane.

so for the reason of the specificity in korean and no usage of hanja (i personally found kanji helpful with learning vocabulary and yes it’s hard at first but once you get over the hill or the mountain,,, however you want to analogize that, it’s such a godsend and doesn’t korean have more vocab based on kanji than japanese anyway? and why the hell won’t they simplify the hanja) and the complexity of grammar (there is so much to choose from for. something in japanese that you would say in 1 way can be at lesat 10 diff ways in korean etc etc so in japanese you hear people saing the exact same sentence/phrase over and over, in korean they do say variations of the same idea/sentence so it’s not exactly the same which makes it harder) korean is definitely harder to speak.

The Kanji… I love it. IT makes Japanese so much easier to learn than Korean…. is my true and honest opinion. I mean Korean is made up of kanji too (they havae lots of words made out of it and i heard they share 75%kango with japanese and I heard they have more kango words than Japanese somewhere? not qutie sure +++ I think korean uses less english… like some of the english/katakana in japanese is insane… to this day I still do not know how to say certain words in Japanese because they always say it in english.) and they don’t use it really use it for writing/printing (except when they print the kanji for girl/guy/north in the newspaper  lol) but like they don’t need to really since korean has way more sounds than japanese so way less homophones for sure and hanguel is easy to read.

But I am honestly am/was conditioned/being conditioned to prefer not being able to read to

not being able to understand the meaning. It’s just been like this for the past 8/9 years.

Also for me, personally, learning korean without knowing kanji is like learning japanese without knowing kanji…. which equals realy really frikin inefficient with learning kango and kanji readings. in fact my master plan is learn japanese, learn korean, get fluent or as good as i want to and then maintain it. as crazy as this paragraph may sound to you, it sounds brilliant to me. It just makes sense because they never write the words with kanji in korean ever so it’s obviously easier to learn abt kanji with japanese since they write stuff in kanji. For the details of my love with kanji and plans with japense and korean go read my lang-8 entry

If you really care to read and can’t read japanese than google translate🙂 It’s good shit…. ? But anyways I have a childhood memory about hanja. so one day when i was super fluent in korean i was thinking

“heys let’s think of a bunch of words related to fire. then i went heys all these words or some of these words all have the same sound in the word so that must be the same hanja. I was like heys why do i know all these words and their respective defintions so well. well it’s obviously why. at that moment i was thinking if i would’ve learned it faster if i learned about the hanja that is related to fire and its reading. now i would say yes if korean is my second language and no if i’m immersed in korean 24/7 b.c. i live in korea.” I only realized all these words related to fire had this same sound in it only after I listed all the words… I just knew each word from their usage… seeing it/hearing it/using it myself /whatever

I really liked the forum posts collected from how to leanr any language because somebody mentions that learning hanja is useful for korena learnaers while flunet korean speakers dont’ really need to since they got a shitload of immersion over the years.

http://tsukinofune.tumblr.com/post/28835992758/232-2011-06-11-20-22-40-58
http://tsukinofune.tumblr.com/post/28836492758
http://tsukinofune.tumblr.com/post/28835338391
http://tsukinofune.tumblr.com/post/45512798345

BUT AT THE SAME TIME I do recognize that there ARE differences between Japanese and Korean and there are reasons why transition of korean to like mixed writing like in japanese isn’t as logical??? is that the word? I do think they should simplify the kanji though…. just legit take the simplified kanji from japanese  (that way korean people can read korean and japanese but then the problem with that is,,, they can’t read the old old text unlss they also learn how to read/recognize traditioanl characters….. some of the traditional charactesr are insane though… like totally over the top compared to simplifiedlol (or is it the other way around that it got simplified a lot! but I think it’s too complicated rather than too simple because it justlooks time-consuming to write lol) like the one for 声 so like big lol and i wouldn’t be ableto figure out it’s koe unless the simplified version next to it, which it was in this book lol)

so I found japanese text about reasons why korean isn’t japanese and the resrevations/reasons for why korena isn’t as ideal as japanese for writing with kanji. LINK BELOW!

http://tsukinofune.tumblr.com/post/50692959288

check if out if you’re interestetd!! The person makes some good points and just articulated what I’ve been feeling and noticing that I wasn’t able to put into words at least not as concisely as this person did.  So as much as I would love it if they just used as much as kanji as possible like in japanese since japanese i’m just so much more comfortal=ble with korean ie kanji i do see and understand why it wouldn’t make as much sense to do that with korean but then…. I also read in one of the articles that i posted today that somebody in korean history who’s in charge or whtaever was like trying to declare that people can only use HANGUEL and then the newspaper people or whoever was totally against it and they won and so the hanguel only thing didn’t happen… but then the hanguel only thing did happen anyway later on,,,, over time just naturally. i was like wtf lol. this gonna shit just pisses me off!

But you know I think one of the points he/she makes in the article sorta happens with japanese too because reading japanese is a complete frikin’ nightmare for foreigners and japanese people… it’s just too DAMN IRREGULAR WITH TOO MANY DAMN POSSIBILITIES FOR NO OTHER GODDAMN REASON EXCEPT IT CAN BE ( sometimes there is background story behind the reading or how it changed to that or watever but sometimes the background story is that “it is that for no other reason it can be”). Oh and if you don’t agree with me on this statement either you haven’t tried reading japanese books / haven’t read much japanese or you’ve read thousands of japanese books and got really good at reading/used to a lot of unusual/uncommon stuff. like i’ve improved a lot and learned a lot from readinga lot in general on the web and from books ( probably 70 books ta this point, because i’m lazy😦 )  and other sources.

Because the readings are like irregular it gets into a limbo /gray area where it’s like I know what it means but i’m not sure about the reading or i have no idea how you read it lol.  But you know guessing readings/making up your readings is fun too!!!

なぜ日本語には悪口の表現が少ないのか?
「人間関係がドライに感じる」
もしあなたが誰かとケンカをしたら、どのような言葉を使って相手を攻撃しますか?日本語には代表的な悪口として「バカ」や「アホ」といったものがありますが、悪口の単語の種類は案外少ないようです。韓国には日本語の「バカ」や「アホ」に相当する単語のほか、日本語では表現できないような悪口が山のように存在します。

韓国のネットユーザーelyさんは、ポータルサイトの掲示板に「なんで日本語には悪口が少ないのか?」と質問。様々な意見が集まりました。

質問:日本語には悪口が少ないと聞きました。でも人間が使う言語ですから、悪口が無いというのは現実的に不可能だと思います。韓国では「パボ(日本語のバカ/アホに相当)」程度なら愛嬌に近いものと認識しますが、日本で同様の言葉を言ったら相手はどう受け止めるのでしょうか。

回答:現在、日本で使われている悪口は「バカ」「アホ」「チクショウ」といった程度しかないようです。韓国ではこういった言葉を冗談で使ったりしますが、日本では相手を傷つける言葉となってしまうようです。日本人は相手に悪口を言う場合、単語よりもフレーズで表現することが多く、韓国とは悪口の表現仕方が違うようです。

回答:日本は韓国と言語文化が違うので、言葉だけで相手を傷つけるような悪口はあまりありません。韓国は直接的、日本は間接的と考えればいいと思います。

回答:韓国では親しい友達に「インマ」と言ったりしますが、これは日本語だと「こら」や「おっさん」などに該当します。でも、日本ではいくら親しくても、悪口の範囲は限られています。韓国ではケンカをして悪口を言っても、すぐに仲直りをして冗談を言い合えるのですが、日本はそうではありません。私は韓国よりも日本の方が、人間関係がドライに感じます。日本人の友人に聞いても日本語の「一番酷い悪口」というのは思いつかないそうです。日本語では、直接的な表現よりも、プライドを傷つけるような言い回しの方が、はるかに相手にダメージを与える悪口となります。

韓国の日本語学習者の中には、日本のドラマや映画に影響され、日本語の悪口に興味を持つ人が多くいます。しかし、韓国語に比べ種類が圧倒的に少ないことを知ると、「なぜ無いの?」驚く人も少なくありません。日本と韓国では、悪口に対する認識が大きく違うようです。

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/yoshimizushrine/55366258.html

http://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/3848261/

I read somewhre on some blog that collects that posts from 2ch about how actresses commit suicide because of the stuff ppl write on the net while that has never hapepned in japan… oh and i also read this lie that somebody wrote… something how about kimchi is bad for you because it has capsaicin in it and that the french health minsitry banned it lol. what bs. kimchi is GOOD for you. this stupid comment was actually bolded and probably had the color changed to red

日本でもあまり表沙汰にはなっていませんが、ネットで叩かれて自殺というのは結構あるようですね。今は「裏サイト」とかなんとか言って、学校内の陰口を特定の専用掲示板に書き込んだりとか、我が国も他人事ではないです。
このような事態にならぬよう、反面教師として学ばねばなりませんね。

>>

Awesome posts on a forum about korean vs. japanese and the learn hanja or not
issue – I potsed the ones I like on the tumblr. I love it… it’s one of the best explanation/debate argument I’ve read on the internet.

Usually people just say uh japanese has 2000 kanji so it’s harder. done deal. I’m like no… you still gots to deal with that shit in korean technically… the “well native korean speakers don’t know hanja” so why does it matter to me is complete bs, since we’re learning korean. we are not fluent so that argument makes no sense. but anyways all those points are thoroughly explained in the posts I linked.

WILL UPDATE MORE🙂 later…. as thoughts pop up as …

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